We continue our series of Monthly Debrief Videos with June 2021. This sixth video in the series saw us discuss balance versus realism in wargames.
-Grant
Monthly Video Debrief, video, War Game Wednesday
June 2021 Monthly Debrief – Balance vs. Realism in Wargames
The Players' Aid 
Limited dead time problem? Look at the Kickstarter game called Coalitions. There are multiple solo options plus a 7 players option. There are a couple of watch it played videos out there showing game play finishing in about 90 minutes with 5 players. I’m surprised your team wasn’t able to get a prototype copy to test play. Looks like an interesting game.
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Hi Grant and Alexander
If you are looking for a really good WW1 documentary check out Peter Jackson’s ‘They Shall not Grow Old’. It uses state of the art techniques to bring the old footage to life. It looks truly amazing. The scene when the old footage transforms into crisp, colour,’modern’ footage is breathtaking.
Mark Holmes (UK)
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Try ‘Somme 1918’ from NUTS publishing. Great game. Trenches are there but the Germans soon blast the British out and then it’s a battle of maneuver.
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Hi Guys… So… Let’s begin with WWI games to start with. I like that Alexander is playing Gallipoli 1915, been wanting that game for some time… a “different” kind of meat grinder, one would assume. I’m hoping you’ll bring the PSC “The Great War” into the discussion (loved it, with all the expansions)… I have YET to play AH’s “1914” with the “Blind squares and Dummy Counters” rules (hidden movement). I suggest you look over Decision Games assorted WWI games… “Lawrence of Arabia”, “Gaza 1916”, and all their other offerings. They even have an African module about German guerrila warfare in East Africa. I believe they have one on Tannenberg, and other major battles. They are folio games, so none of them is a monster. IF you can get ahold of “Trench Foot” by GDW, you’d really like that one… individual scenarios about different trench wars. One I would vigorously suggest is an RPG… “Never Coming Home”, that has had a few Kickstarters… it’s a bit of Cathulu and tactical warfare. CORRECT ME if I’m wrong but has Chad Jensen’s design for “Commander”, WWI come out yet? NOW… to the bit about “balance” and “History”… such a deep subject. OK, I’m all for “learning” how a battle was fought, win or lose… BUT,.. “balance” is far more important to me. Like Grant, I want OPTIONS. Give me a chance to do things like choosing when and where WWII begins, or even, perhaps, the possibility of stopping WWI all together. The ACW can be interesting in that way. Most battles at least give the Confederates an opportunity to fight to a draw. THEN there are games like AH’s “Arab-Israeli War”, which is a virtual win for the Israeli’s nearly every time. This is why I sometimes like to handle games like AH’s “Blitzkrieg” or “Tactics II”… “Combat Infantry” (Columbia), and VICTORY (Columbia). IF I want to really be challenged… I like “States of Siege” games, principally “Zulu’s on the wire”, and “Keep Up The Fire”. I also like to use scenarios from games like AH’s PanzerBlitz/Panzer Leader/Squad Leader… still fantastic games regardless of when they came out. In terms of a quality historical game, I like AH’s “Tobruk” (ocean of dice)… detailed but worth the time. I never got to play it, but people talk about “Jutland” from AH, in good and bad terms. ***STILL don’t know why you guys don’t try some Spanish Civil War games (Las Barracades, Espana 1936, or “Help Arrives” which is being sent out on KSer. A lot of interesting mechanics. WELL… will be interested in your “Guns of August” (have that one too), vid…
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Probably the best history book I’ve read, and certainly a great study of WWI, is The World Undone: The Story of the Great War, 1914 to 1918 by G.J. Meyer. Comprehensive and wide-ranging, but doesn’t spend more time than needed on detailed campaign elaborations.
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What a timely subject for you to cover in relation to me dipping my toe into war games. There are a number of reasons I have yet to dive in: my group of gaming friends is not into war games, they are big and intimidating (war games, not my friends), the games are often more expensive for seemingly lower quality components, and so on. But one of my biggest hurdles is the realism.
My understanding has always been that many, if not most, war games, in an attempt to simulate history, tend to be one-sided affairs. Having watched many of your videos now I have not been completely disabused of that notion but perhaps I thought it was more extreme than the reality. I was not aware that a number of games ship with ahistorical scenarios, solving the balance vs. realism problem.
The other factor of the simulation issue is… I do not want to play Nazis, or fascists, or a Confederacy fighting to maintain slavery. You mention one of the interesting things for you about wargaming is trying to do better in the game than the faction you are playing did in the actual war/battle/campaign. But I don’t want to make Nazis do better than they did in real life. This is something I am uncertain I will be able to get past to get into the wider hobby. Ancients are better for that, I think. Games like D-Day at Omaha Beach/Tarawa/others look great for me because I would be playing “the good guys”.
I am much more interested in sci-fi and fantasy but there just doesn’t seem to be sf&f titles that are as full and robust as most historical war games. I did P500 Red Dust Rebellion, which seems like my jam. I am just not that enamored with the history part of wargaming. I mostly want the game, I guess.
Anyway, this has gone on long enough. Thanks for all the videos, I’ve been bingeing. And adding many games to my BGG wishlist.
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OK… it has to be said… and I’M NOT trying to be a troll, back me up GROGNARDS… This world CAN BE political, it CAN BE devisive, we can be politically polarized in all direction. GAMING SHOULD BE GAMING… let’s NOT take this personally. There is a game reviewer that openly states that the “South” had no legal right to suceed from the Union… I disagree, they had EVERY RIGHT to. THAT being said, playing an ACW game is about strategy, doing what you can, with the terrain and the forces you have, NOT whether there was legal precident for succession. I”M GOOD… let that reviewer BELIEVE what he likes… this is AMERICA and it’s OK to have differing opinions. TO THINK that winning an ACW game, as the South is supporting ‘slavery’ is simply absurd… any ACW game is about a BATTLE that happened nearly 200 years ago, WHEN the world was really different. ** My “people”/family fought with Stonewall Jackson, and some rode with Quantrill in the Border Wars. I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THEM! They fought to defend what was their’s… their land, their identity, their rights. NOTHING ELSE could be MORE AMERICAN… we’ve been this way before the Revolutionary War and we haven’t changed, thankfully. Part of my family tree was forced to walk “The Trail of Tears” as well… NOT a kind chapter in American history, but IT HAPPENED, it can’t be erased. As for the Nazi’s OR the Japanese… there was a reason they almost won… playing war games brings us all a little closer to knowing WHY. THAT being said… IF there is a particular era you’d like to avoid… AVOID IT! Play ANCIENTS, or NAPOLEONIC… or FANTASY… YOU make the call on who the bad guys are. MAYBE all I’m saying here is that gaming is about mastering that strategic part of ourselves and learning about some bits of history we don’t know about. RIGHT NOW, I’m interested in learning about the “Indian Wars” through many different designers,… along with my readings, I prefer to play “Blood on the OHIO”, “Navajo Wars”, “Commaneria”, “Once we rode like the wind”, and many others. Doing that gives me a DIRECT sense of the problems they faced. Let’s ALL agree that gaming is about gaming… IF I really wanted to take sides and argue about anything, then I’d go to a local bar and argue which baseball/football/basketball team really SUCKS!!!
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Jim, your people/family fought to maintain slavery. Putting it any other way is just whitewashing the matter. It’s okay to be ashamed of your ancestors for doing the wrong thing. You say “the world was really different” during the American Civil War but everyone still knew that subjugating other human beings was wrong, they just didn’t care because it was not happening to them and they were benefiting from the labor. Quit being an apologist for slaveholders.
Sorry, Grant. Sorry, Alexander. I just wanted to have a civilized discussion about some problems I personally have with wargaming and thought the two of you might have some insight into the matter. Given Jim’s response, I am going to bow out of trying to be a part of this community.
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No need to apologize Jason. I understand your concerns and hope that you give wargaming a chance as there are lots of games, particularly solo affairs, that allow you to play as the Allies. Some of my favorite are D-Day at Tarawa by Decision Games, Sherman Leader from Dan Verssen Games and Silent Victory from GMT Games.
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Jim I appreciate your input and understand the way you feel about things but please remember that we are trying to create a safe space for discussion on our blog and YouTube channel and also reach out to new wargamers.
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OK… I’m good with that, Grant… I’m ALL for being agreeable about the hobby… just tried to bring some reason and rationality to this. I didn’t MEAN to be a troll, but on more than one gaming site, we’re being hit with all this kind of thing… ethics and morals of the Obama administration being translated into something that ISN’T GAMING. I argue politics, but try HARD NOT to do it on gaming sites. AGAIN, sorry for seeming like a troll, but I felt something had to be said.
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Jim, you literally just did it again. “[J]ust tried to bring some reason and rationality to this” and “but I felt something had to be said,” come on. In your initial response, you acted as if I attacked you personally, and now you are claiming that the entire hobby is under siege because some people are not cool trying to win a game playing as Nazis.
And these are my ethics and morals, by the way. “[T]his is AMERICA and it’s OK to have differing opinions.” What happened to you believing that? The thing is, Jim, I don’t think you do. Even in your original response to me, immediately after you said that you called me absurd. And to clarify, I do not believe that “winning an ACW game, as the South is supporting ‘slavery’”, I just said that I am uncomfortable with it for myself. (Also. why is slavery in quotes? It’s a real thing.)
The fact that you said “ethics and morals of the Obama administration” shows me who you really are.
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Let me state once again… and most clearly… I AM A GAMER… a GROGNARD. I PLAY board games with no POLITICAL BENT. I PLAY these board games with everyone… EVEN YOU. I HAVE no fixed agenda, but apparently you DO. I am also old enough to have taught History and English in high school for over 8 years. I have “perspective”, define that for what you will, I no longer care which side I err on, or IF you have a problem with it. AS a tax-paying AMERICAN I WILL hold whatever opinion, political or otherwise, regardless of what you think. In HONOR of this game site I won’t CONTINUE this political baiting or “tit for tat”… should this have been ANOTHER website, you would KNOW my thoughts in no uncertain terms. GAMING is OPEN for everyone, regardless of which side of the political banner you stand on. What has happened, as written HISTORY, one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred years ago IS an EVENT… someone won… someone lost. Perhaps, in CHOOSING to re-play a certain battle, I am seeking some knowledge and wisdom about that event. I am a “historian”, in my reading and my game play. I am NOT a lightweight, NOR a “rookie”. In answer to your statement… YES, I apparently KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE… in quotes or out of them. I INVITE YOU, as an American, to continue believing whatever you like… AND to continue playing the types of games that amuse you and give you JOY. I WILL continue to do the same. WE don’t have to AGREE… what we do need to do is not pollute this website with anymore toxic material. IF you want to tangle with me, on a political or social matter… send me your website and we’ll “take it outside”, there… We exist in a small aspect of this hobby, that is a fraction of the overall GAMING community… let’s keep it upbeat and friendly. I write this response, with the utmost restraint and RESPECT for what Grant and Alexander are trying to do… provide game coverage, and reviews for games ALL of us might find interesting. GOOD DAY!
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